Experts At The Table: The Hidden Costs In Design
Thursday, October 21st, 2010By Ed Sperling
System-Level Design sat down to discuss where the hidden costs are in design with Ran Avinun, marketing group director for system design and verification at Cadence; Ken Brock, senior product marketing staff member at Synopsys; Kalar Rajendiran, senior director of marketing at eSilicon; Bo Gao, new product program director of design technology at Cypress Semiconductor, and Bob Smith, vice president of marketing and business development at Magma. What follows are excerpts of that conversation.
SLD: Where are the hidden costs?
Rajendiran: Many of the costs are hidden these days because of all the disaggregation. You can purchase many of the components for an SoC and you can even negotiate the lowest cost for that particular piece. But when you put it all together there’s a lot more needed to get a product out on time, with confidence that it will work, and still keep the total cost of ownership low. The problem is that when you buy IP from multiple suppliers that may not integrate that well your schedule may be delayed and you may not be able to close timing. These are problems that may not be accounted for by a project manager today. This is a big shift from the past where all the pieces came from the same supplier. All the EDA tools were homegrown. You had the IP, the process, and the tools so it had to work. You need to account for those costs up front before you start the project.
Gao: One of our challenges is logistics. I have teams spread across different locations. If I have a problem here in San Jose it will take me a minimum of 12 hours to get someone on the phone in India to talk about it. And then when I do get the answer, it might not answer what I meant. That’s one of the big challenges –dealing with teams globally. From an EDA tool issue, stability is a big problem today. Instead of just working on designs, I’m fighting tool issues almost every day. The worst problem of all is a tool crash because you can’t even debug that. You have to go back to the vendor to deal with it. You have to prepare a test case, take that back to the vendor and hope they can come up with a workaround. It usually takes a couple days. That isn’t something in the project management costs and it’s very unpredictable.
Avinun: In the past the focus was around IP creation and process innovation. These days there are more and more companies outsourcing their IP and outsourcing their fabs. The game is changing. The key cost is hidden in integration. That’s integration of multiple IPs into an SoC, it’s integration at a system level of hardware and software. It’s also the ability to integrate beyond silicon to the overall system. And it’s the ability to move from specification to RTL and eventually to implementation. Those are the key challenges, and in many cases companies are not dealing with those costs up front. The worst case is when you discover those problems late in the process. If you discover it a week before tapeout you can still recover. If you discover it two weeks after you get silicon back it’s starting to stretch your ability to recover. If you discover it when those devices are in the field, it can be a disaster.
Brock: Those are all hidden costs, but one of the biggest costs is coming out with non-competitive products. A lot of our customers are at the bleeding edge. At 40nm we have 40 customers working there and those processes are finally stable. We’re working at 28nm now. You have to have a long lead time to say, ‘This is the product and the spec I want to hit.’ It may be six months or a year before a product comes to market. But you need flexibility to deal with the changes and specs and standards. Some standard interfaces may change and you’re trying to tape out where the puck is going to be, not where it is today. It’s the Wayne Gretzky scenario. At the same time, you have to deal with the process. The process is changing. If you get to the finish line and you have the wrong power, performance, it’s a cost. There will also be people coming and going on the design team. You need to manage that change with flexibility to prevent hidden costs.
Smith: If you look at the ecosystem you’ve got designers, semiconductor providers, fab guys, test guys—there are a ton of moving parts. The automation tools are supposed to be there to make the job easier. The reality is that it’s not always the case. You may even go through a period where you ask yourself, ‘Why am I doing this? I’m trying to get my tools to work’ One of the big hidden costs is we’re developing products and the target is always moving. Design rules change, guidelines change, libraries change. We’ve got a process that we thought was nailed down and we just discovered this effect so now we’re going to change the rules. That affects the EDA tools, which are software trying to keep up with the changes. This is a very entropic system. The other point I’d like to mention is that we’re getting all this rich IP. There are a few standards out there. If you think about a PCB, most processors and memories come in well-defined packages. You know how to drop it into a board. That’s really not the case with a system-on-chip. People spend an awful lot of time trying to develop and verify these interfaces. There also are hidden costs in up-front planning. Chip design is very time-consuming. If you start with a bad plan and you find a problem, working your way back up to fix it is really tough.
SLD: How much of the unexpected cost comes from engineers used to doing things a certain way even though that may no longer be the best way to do it?
Rajendiran: If you look at characterization corners, there are a lot of corners at 90nm for things like temperature inversion. For many generations in the past people said that when temperature rises things are going to slow down. That’s not the case. If there’s something new and you miss the market window. If you miss that window by six months you lose x% of the profit. Add to that the complexity of the design chain. And even though companies like Cadence and Synopsys and Magma are doing a great job with tools, every company is different. They exercise different corner cases. You can’t have someone who just knows how to use a tool. They have to know how to use it well and know the intricacies of that tool. They can think slightly differently as things change and put the tools to use differently. This is harder now that it’s global and teams are all over the map. In our business, it’s important you don’t just find the lowest cost. That doesn’t always work. Those teams are not always working on the same time zone or the same plane. Things you can parse off to a time zone ahead so they’re working while you’re sleeping has its place. But there’s also a place for doing it in the same time zone. You need to be close sometimes. It can be a huge hidden cost.
Avinun: The main penalty is opportunity cost. Companies wake up when they find out they’ve got a disaster at the last minute.
